Comments on MEET VERNON: Replies Updates

Hey Guys!Check out http://borensteinslaw.blogspot....

2006-02-25T06:55:00.000-05:00

Hey Guys!

Check out http://borensteinslaw.blogspot.com/2006/02/death-penalty-reconsidered.html

I started debating with a public defender on the death penalty issue.

Come support me!

Yes I think you are right doct. The site administr...

2006-02-25T06:21:00.000-05:00

Yes I think you are right doct. The site administrator will probably add more correspondence soon and for sure will tell us if there is a major change in the case.

Hi John,I just spoke to a friend in the USA. All t...

2006-02-25T05:12:00.000-05:00

Hi John,

I just spoke to a friend in the USA. All that he knows is that Vernon is awaiting the hearing on his stay. Other than that, no movement. I'm sure this blog's Administrator will alert us, should there be a change.

Undercoveranna, I think it's probably old info., I...

2006-02-25T02:57:00.000-05:00

Undercoveranna, I think it's probably old info., I think you are right. It wouldn't make much sense in view of the recent history of the case. My understanding is that there will not be a review until May of this year, and if that process had been interferred with, I think it would have been splashed all over MSN news. I have looked and I cannot find any such reference. Keep checking !!

It's stated under the link for MEET VERNON:""A US ...

2006-02-24T18:48:00.000-05:00

It's stated under the link for MEET VERNON:

""A US District Court judge denied Wednesday night a request from death row inmate Vernon Lee Evans Jr. to postpone his scheduled execution, ruling that "it ...
www.meetvernon.blogspot.com/ - 101k ...

If I click on the link, I get to his blog here, but I can't find any more ... Maybe it's some old link referring to a former dispute in his case. That's why I am asking.

Undercoveranna uff I don't know anything about thi...

2006-02-24T17:55:00.000-05:00

Undercoveranna uff I don't know anything about this. Where did you get the information?

Is it true that Vernon's case has been denied a re...

2006-02-24T16:02:00.000-05:00

Is it true that Vernon's case has been denied a re-trial by some judge? How is that possible?
I am shocked.

Hey Doct, have you got any update on the Morales c...

2006-02-24T15:24:00.000-05:00

Hey Doct, have you got any update on the Morales case?

Doct If you ever fancy some snow !! and go to Engl...

2006-02-24T14:25:00.000-05:00

Doct If you ever fancy some snow !! and go to England, go to one of the CAMRA (Campaign for Real Ale) beer festivals. You can enjoy 2,000 different local "warm" brews. You'll definately be having a good time after that lot !!! Yeah there was a time, I don't know if its still true, when there was a term loosely bandied around for SAS troopers being called the "Funnies" on account of troopers insular and secretive ways. But the truth is, if you couldn't banter, you were not one of the "family" !! I had a great time with them but naturally there was a real sting in the tail too !! And even in civvy life afterwards, that knowledge, a way of soldiering, and those skills come in really handy on the extremely rare occasions when life is threatened. To "know" what to do, and very quickly, in a crisis can save yours and others lives.

I still keep my hand in occasionally as well, as a "hobby." I'm a bit old for that sort of stuff now, but I was asked a while back to get some photo evidence of a violent drug group who were attacking some colleagues of my wife. Once in position, these characters were passing me from two feet away and they had no idea I was there. After getting the photos, when I slipped away, I smoothed the grass back so they would not know I had been there. The Police moved straight in afterwards and arrested the lot and used my snaps as Court evidence. Most people would think I'm nuts to do that, but I enjoyed it !! Spain is different !!

Yeah, the SAS's were "craaaaaazy boys!" I remember...

2006-02-24T13:19:00.000-05:00

Yeah, the SAS's were "craaaaaazy boys!" I remember the UK SAS came down to train them in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe and they stayed with us at our base. They were looney!!! We had a lot of fun together. And good fighters, no doubt! Only difference was...they, being English, liked warm beer, something you will NOT, I repeat NOT, I repeat NOT, find in SA!!!

And I love the two syringes solution "On guard"!! ...

2006-02-24T06:19:00.000-05:00

And I love the two syringes solution "On guard"!! Hahahaha!!

Hello Doct Yes I think Jim was fed a line when he ...

2006-02-24T06:09:00.000-05:00

Hello Doct Yes I think Jim was fed a line when he was told SAS troopers are a bunch of "sad blokes" I think he said !! I had great fun !! Yes, thanks for that input. There is a code of conduct. Really brave men respect courage, not weak pointless tied up killing.

Hey John/EB,I made use of the opportunity to phone...

2006-02-24T01:04:00.000-05:00

Hey John/EB,

I made use of the opportunity to phone three S.O. Buds quickly, to get their comments of the DP. This is it:

Arthur (ex Recce): "Nah, it's not sporting. Put a gun in his hand first! You can't kill someone who doesn't have a weapon in his hand"

Nathan (ex Rhodesian/Zimbabwe SAS): "Give him his own set of lethal syringes and lock him and the DA in the same room!(hahahaha)" He "banters" just like you, John! I think it might be an SAS trait! hahahaha!!!

Koos (ex FFL): "It's against the "Code", you should know that".

Just thought you guys would enjoy their views. Have a super day!!

Hey John! Glad you are back! Send some snow this w...

2006-02-24T00:24:00.000-05:00

Hey John! Glad you are back! Send some snow this way, please! We are having SWELTERING days of heat here! Mid-summer!

I appreciated your posts, especially on "not killing an unarmed person". It rings true with the link to the death penalty.

You know...I yet have to find ANY person, who was a real S.O. that is NOT an abolishionist! Maybe you can explain it, more your field (Psych). Maybe it has to do with the "Code"..."no women, no children, no non-combatants"?

And Jim, English Blogger is right. The SBS boys H...

2006-02-23T19:00:00.000-05:00

And Jim, English Blogger is right. The SBS boys Ha! (if they were SBS boys, that is!) would have just spun you soldiers' yarns for a pint or two. (I'll let into a secret ! I've done it myself !) Plied with a few drinks, I'll tell you anything you want to know about survival. And I really know my stuff. But details of real intelligence operations,?? Forget it, pal, no way am I going to touch it. I don't want problems. Whatever they told you, take it with a pinch of salt. Now, look at the nature of "courage." Not to say "yes," but to say "no" to cruelty. Three tough men here are saying "No" to cruelty. So why do you want to be left out?

Hi chaps ! I have just got back. Snowed up in fact...

2006-02-23T17:28:00.000-05:00

Hi chaps ! I have just got back. Snowed up in fact! Well done Doct. A very intelligent answer to Jim. Let's test his "facts". Misled by the site operator?? I hardly think so.

Well done English Blogger. 100% right about the OSA. Jim take note. That is the Official Secrets Act. It is a serious and prosecutable offence to breach it. I too am still subject to it and it's no good winding me up Jim. I am not going to tell you anything about secret operations which I know about, so don't bother trying. You chatted to some Special Boat boys? Great. They wouldn't tell you much either,operationally, even over a beer. Their loyalty is to their unit. Period. "Need to know" - ever heard of it? What I would like to know is why you focus on military matters for your arguments regarding the death penalty. Here, you have been chatting to three ex-military service guys, all with working knowledge of special forces, who ALL (but you) disagree with the death penalty and why shouldn't we disagree? We would never shoot P.O.W.'s TIED UP (illegal) so however macho we are, we do not sanction killing someone in civvy life TIED UP, helpless and unable to defend themselves. I have taken out terrorists in combat situations. I am not weak. But I do not agree with executing civilians TIED UP. Period. No more than I would have shot a P.O.W. Once they are not shooting at you, there is no need to kill, or, of course, wound. A dead terrorist is no good to military intelligence because the dead can't tell you anything. If you think SAS are weak because they do not kill everything they see, it is because you fundamentally do not understand the role of SF. Be that as it may, I told you before that e.g.SAS are the "thinking man's" army. To go in behind the enemy lines, living off the land, for example, and more I can't put here,is macho enough. There is no reason to think people against the death penalty are weak. The opposite is true. We don't kill people tied up. Those 5 terrorist, who tried to kill my wife at 7 in the morning about 5 years ago for example. One was shooting at me. I captured him and turned him over to the Police when they arrived. I was unarmed myself. My military knowledge kept me alive and I got him. That's in the Police files. And you think I'm weak because I am against the death penalty? Think again, pal. There is nothing naiive nor weak about being against the death penalty. And please, don't be so infatuated and obsessed with the military. A professional soldier sees it as a job. It's just that. You give the impression that you think that anyone who has not been a soldier is weak. That's rubbish. There are many forms of courage. People fight cancer very bravely for example. Leave the bullets out of the argument, for heavens sake. The professional soldiers you have been talking to here are not so impressed because we have done it !! It was a job.

Jim,Knowing what I do about S.O. if people say the...

2006-02-23T09:31:00.000-05:00

Jim,

Knowing what I do about S.O. if people say they are, then 99 out of 10o chances they are not. Each branch has a very tight code of secrecy, every member signs the OSA and when you get into selective services you sign a higher version forbidding telling anyone where you are or what you do, due to the nature of the service and the people who want them out of the way. That OSA declaration continues after you leave the service and is valid for life. So I am guessing they have been spinning a yarn with the flow of beer or bullshitting as you would put it.

Hi Jim,OK, let's give you the benefit of the doubt...

2006-02-23T00:28:00.000-05:00

Hi Jim,

OK, let's give you the benefit of the doubt here until we can view the actual court documents for ourselves. Let's say there was a "hit". I viewed the video submitted for clemency and that placed some doubt in my mind. At the same time they talk about a witness in Vernon's favour. In my mind, bearing in mind that I accept, until I can view all evidence, that Vernon did do the hit, shouldn't all parties now explore these issues first and only when it had been exhausted fully, make up their mind as to Vernon's guilt? However, let's assume he is guilty and there is no doubt about it. My argument is that he doesn't need to be executed. He can be given life without parole. This is what my argument is about...not to repay murder with murder. Yet, I respect your viewpoint as one for the death penalty. You have your reasons, I have mine. And Jim, if you go out and "make it messy", they will probably arrest you and you will get the death sentence. In this, I will ALSO fight not to have you executed. In our country, the "going out making it messy" was a reality prior to us becoming a democracy in 1994. They used to put tyres soaked in petrol (gas) around a person and fire him up. The TV guys had a royal feast showing this. Yet, life went on and the message didn't even have a dent in daily life. Which leads me to the conclusion that messages in the "public and messy" way, do not work. I tell you what...can you get me a link to Vernon's court documents and I will review them and give my honest opinion as to the "undisputed facts" you talk about? On a personal note...you quote units I am familiar with...I spent 5 years with the SA Recces in Angola and 2 years as an exchange with the FFL in African ops in the 70's and early 80's. I resigned when our wars ended. Not something I would want to return to. It was too messy.

English Blogger, as I have stated in other posts h...

2006-02-22T19:19:00.000-05:00

English Blogger, as I have stated in other posts here, that I have a very influential family member that is involved in this case in a roundabout sort of way, and from what was presented to the courts is that the witness of the defence(vernons) never showed in court because she could not be found, not that they wouldn't let her testify. Vernons Lawyers wanted her, but it is not the responsibility of the state to supeona them, only if they are a possible hostile witness that which can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was innocent. The supposed witness's store was roughly a 100feet away from the murders, and there were closer witnesses than this who saw him with the gun. I feel you are being mislead by the publisher of this site, you can see just about everything I have through court records which can be accessed by anyone.

On a seperate note, I know alot of SBS troopers thruout the spec ops community and we have polished off a few pints at various pubs throughout England, and you guys like our military have a friendly dislike to other branches. We all think we are the best. you know that. But if I had my choice of all spec operators to have my back up against in a firefight, it would be SBS, been with GIGN's, GSG-9, Mossad and others. My opinion my English cousins are the best.

Jim, please read my reply to you. I did not attack...

2006-02-22T04:56:00.000-05:00

Jim, please read my reply to you. I did not attack you I used your own turn of phrase; you said you wanted to kill all assholes. That to me is totally wrong, so I said that you are one, who decides who is an asshole, any idiot who goes out killing with a gun in my book...

Jim, read all the articles about the original trial, Vernon, had a very bad defence; he was wrongly advised by his defence council. They didn't call a witness as well.
How can anyone Kill a Man who has not had a full and fair trial Jim?
I know I am against the Death Penalty, but even if I wasn't I still wouldn't kill someone who had not had a full and fair trial, in the forces its called a Kangaroo Court.

If anyone reads my first post on here, it specific...

2006-02-21T21:43:00.000-05:00

If anyone reads my first post on here, it specifically states that if I were the member of the family that had this happen to, then I would not be waiting for the death penalty, I would hunt them down myself and make it public and messy to send a message. that is what I wrote, John you have jumped me from the start, fine. Then English Blogger wrote aginst me as well. I have nothing against either of you, but no one has addressed the undisputed facts of the case. You guys are wrong again about the stay of execution, (as usual) It is a stay for the argument of Lethal injections validity, nothing more. He will never get another trial because the courts found no reasonable doubt that the courts would find a reason to see another outcome other than death. Maryland has no worries, we have 2 forms of the death Penalty, Lethal Injection and Gas chamber. this is just a little reason of hope to Vernon maybe it is a way to make him suffer like his victims , who knows. I suggest anyone who thinks I am archaic or violent to please read my original post to see who did what to whom, I'll bet some people will erase all doubt about who the professional thinks he is. we can't go back and erase what we say, but some may go back and close out their old statements..........

"'Is anyone going to dispute the facts of this cas...

2006-02-21T19:57:00.000-05:00

"'Is anyone going to dispute the facts of this case as Jim has outlined?'

Please read the clemency petition. It is a revealing document, indeed. I assume that even the governor has developped some serious doubts about the case.

I honestly wish, there would be a solution that doesn't hurt anyone ... Honestly!

Thanks English Blogger. I did answer Daydreamer's ...

2006-02-21T06:47:00.000-05:00

Thanks English Blogger. I did answer Daydreamer's question exactly in the way you put it even better than the way I put it.But Daydreamer did not answer my questions.

Bluebolt.The Court has answered that by giving Ver...

2006-02-21T03:51:00.000-05:00

Bluebolt.

The Court has answered that by giving Vernon a stay and the right too appeal. As John has said, it is now upto lawyers and Veron and the witness's to answer questions and 12 people to decide.
My argument has been Vernon did not have a fair trial, he didn't have a true defence, I am sure if you didn't have a fair trial, you would be a bit cheesed off as well.

UnderCoverAnna said...

I can only wish I had the same ability as both Glenn and English blogger have -- but I just don't. Nevertheless, not loving another human being, hating her/him, despising what he/she has done, feeling repulsed or whatever else -- nothing grants me the ight to kill.

You do I promise you, have a look at my Blog http://thebloggie.blogspot.com/ and Email me and we can chat.

EB

ACA:You say:'Killing someone, if your own life is ...

2006-02-20T22:33:00.000-05:00

ACA:

You say:

'Killing someone, if your own life is not immediately threatened is not justifiable. Period.'

I believe the point that Jim & Daydreamer are trying to make (I'm sure they'll correct me if I'm wrong lol) is that clemency and 'abusive childhood's' are being used by John and others as a 'justification' for Vernon's actions. He took money to kill these people. It was a hit. There is no justification other than to support his (well documented) drug habit.

I am not a supporter of the death penalty, and I consider the discussion of it (overall) to be overly emotional and lacking in critical analysis.

However that being said - the question asked by Daydreamer was:

'Is anyone going to dispute the facts of this case as Jim has outlined?'

I have yet to see this question answered.