Comments on MEET VERNON: Vernon Update

Hi all that have seen me write before...John i jus...

2006-03-20T22:12:00.000-05:00

Hi all that have seen me write before...John i just read what ya said the 24th of feb and agree with you about stichess 77 sounds like "expert Rn" but what we haven't seen this person say is how they feel about the death penalty (maybe we have and i just didn't read it) but how do you feel stiches????

Another thing any one written vernon a question and not got a response??????

To undercoveranna I totally agree with you and I h...

2006-02-24T13:41:00.000-05:00

To undercoveranna I totally agree with you and I have suspected for some time that "stitches 77" could well be "Expert RN" Same mold even if I'm wrong. Makes me laugh the way the way they do worse than what they accuse others of !! Hahahaha!! This one is well stitched up !!

To John:It becomes clearer and clearer to me that ...

2006-02-24T12:46:00.000-05:00

To John:

It becomes clearer and clearer to me that my impressions of the pro-death people are not too far off. They claim rights for themselves that they deny others, punish others for killing, but demand to be excepted themselves from the same rules.

So, where does the executioner stand in this argument? He is being paid for what he does? (By TAX Dollars on top of that?)
And if societal laws always had been morally impeccable, then the Nazi regime, the Apartheid regime, the Idi Amin regime, the Hussein regime must have been righteous, too. Isn't that so?

(On the side: Could it be that some posters here post under different id's?)

Undercoveranna, notice the quality of your critisi...

2006-02-23T20:58:00.000-05:00

Undercoveranna, notice the quality of your critisisers. I wouldn't take too much notice of them if I were you. They are not even worth a reply.

Stitches 77 Fine. As insults are your only answer...

2006-02-23T20:51:00.000-05:00

Stitches 77 Fine. As insults are your only answer I will treat your reply with the contempt it deserves. I am a qualified psychologist and I do not mind what you think. "Stupid" I am not. But your reply tells me what you are.

You didn't see a response John, because I never an...

2006-02-23T20:07:00.000-05:00

You didn't see a response John, because I never answered your question. But, the answer is yes I have mental health experience. And the reason I say you are not a psychologist is not because you are 'too tough' it is because you are too stupid. You wrangle your way around and don't even know that you've given yourself away.
As far as the death of the criminal, oooo I'm just crying for them. That's what I have to say about the British Medical Association.

Stitches 77 What undercoveranna is saying is that...

2006-02-23T19:41:00.000-05:00

Stitches 77 What undercoveranna is saying is that murder doe not resolve murder !! And I haven't found your answers to the questions I asked you !! As a medical professional, would you like to comment on The British Medical Association's condemnation that the levels of anaesthetic used by executioners would be too low for medical operations and that therefore the people being executed are indeed being tortured to death by chemicals that burn and cause excrutiating pain. I also asked you if you have had experience in mental hospitals, as you claim I cannot be a psychologist / psychotherapist because I am too tough. I gave you a very in depth explanation and excuse me if I have missed your answer, but I have not found one. You will notice that Jim has stopped insulting me and joined the debate in a more mature way so far. Perhaps I am not as bad as you think... I never excluded him. I "invited" him to join us, but in a way that others can work with. "Asshole" is not an argument. It is a sound off.

Anna after I first read that statement you made an...

2006-02-23T18:27:00.000-05:00

Anna after I first read that statement you made and picked my jaw up off the floor, I thought perhaps you didn't realize how it sounded. But since obviously you did intend to mock the grief of innocent victims, I can assure you that your attitude does not endear folks to your cause. Considering that a small minority of Americans think as you do, I would venture to guess that you won't be having much luck gaining supporters. To compare the laws of society with criminal acts is incomprehensible. Perhaps compassion shown all the way around and not just towards criminals might help. I wonder how other death penalty opponents feel about this? Is it acceptable to act so contemptuous towards the victims of crime?

Bluebolt is oppsed to the death penalty, and yet she seemed outraged by your words as well.

On the other hand Anna, you're right, I or anyone else can't tell you what to say or not say. You have freedom of speech just like the rest of us. If you choose to talk like trash, knock yourself out.

((Bluebolt)), your arguement that Vernon took mone...

2006-02-23T12:07:00.000-05:00

((Bluebolt)), your arguement that Vernon took money for killing his victims is a double-edged sword. One could argue that the executioner makes a living of killing people whether they are innocent or not. Now, that is disgusting!

There is no way out: it is not right to grant one human the right to kill when denying it to another one.

ACA:I understand your comment about the 'revenge' ...

2006-02-22T23:20:00.000-05:00

ACA:

I understand your comment about the 'revenge' perspective of some who are proponents of the death penalty.

Yes, Vernon did have a traumatic childhood. If he had killed in self defense, or in response to this trauma then this would be a valid defence.

HOWEVER: The crime he committed was a hit. He took money to kill 2 people. He committed this crime in a state where the death penalty is known to apply.

As far as 'pain & suffering' for the 'victim' of the executioner goes - consider this. The victims did not have a chance to say goodbye to their loved ones, to fulfill their potential as humans. The pain for those who loved these 2 people (the TRUE victims) will live with them forever and I cannot speak for them regarding what they would consider to be 'closure'.

Vernon was NOT a victim in this. He has had the opportunity to speak with his family, repent (and so he bloody ought to) and to get a whole bunch of people riled about the issue. He is only a victim in so far as he chooses to be or people like many on this blog choose to make him.

Yes he has suffered - but this isn't about him & his suffering - HE TOOK MONEY TO KILL PEOPLE!

Regardless of the outcomes of the review certain facts have yet to be disputed:

His dna & fingerprints were on the murder weapon. He was there. He admitted taking money to kill these 2 people. He didn't know that one of the people wasn't the person he was supposed to kill.

Until these facts are refuted - the evidence remains that HE TOOK MONEY TO KILL PEOPLE. A choice was made - albeit a bad one.

To stitches:I should have added ... "and don't giv...

2006-02-22T19:50:00.000-05:00

To stitches:

I should have added ... "and don't give a dram about what suffering and pain they will cause the relatives of the executioner's victims."

I don't think that honesty is improper. It is hard to take at times, I understand. Especially hard for those who expect their own feelings being paramount to anyone else's and tell others they cannot understand what it means to be in their situation, while they themselves, however, claim the right to dismiss Vernon's sufferings as a child as not worth mentioning. How do they know what went on in Vernon's psyche, if they haven't experienced the same traumata he did? How can they dismiss these events as bogus claims by the defendant? The pity has to be on their side only -- nowhere else. That is the impression they left with me. Do only they have the right to feel traumatized and therefore be entitled to take a life?
I don't think so. And I say so.
And again, you successfully evaded the issue at hand by trying to teach me what I am not supposed to say.
I think there is nothing more offensive than openly asking for the life of another person being taken because I have the right to, while condemning Vernon for having done the same. This is simply absurd! And absolutely selfish!
I am sorry.

I would like to repeat that I have no love in my heart for killers, and some of them do not deserve to live or rather had never been born. But as soon as I am willing to take another's life I am no better than they are. I don't see any difference, for example, in a drug dealer's revenge killing and someone elses revenge killing. Just don't see it!

undercoveranna said: And this is not disrespectin...

2006-02-22T17:25:00.000-05:00

undercoveranna said: And this is not disrespecting the vicitims of a crime -- just stating my opinion about their relatives who bathe themselves in self-important whining about their sufferings.

Oh my.

Yes, we certainly are all entitled to our own opinions. I do believe, however, that you've just breached the bounds of propriety with that statement.

"It's interesting that you think people are speaki...

2006-02-22T11:59:00.000-05:00

"It's interesting that you think people are speaking out of ignorance.
When you couldn't intelligently refute my opinion you stooped to sloppy, B-grade insults.
This blog is NOT about the war in Iraq.
Anyone who feels *ashamed* to be American because of the death penalty or the war in Iraq should feel free to migrate elsewhere.
Oh yeah and the next time you're going to say people are ignorant, you might want to use a dictionary for words such as 'untitled'. It's really not strengthening your argument.
I reside in Australia. "

Neither are substituting ridiculous jabs for valid arguments, ((Daydreamer)).
You like to tell people they can leave, if they don't like the American system. That is about the most hackneyed answere anyone can possibly use.
People in this country have the right to voice their opinions and speak their minds AND REMAIN in this country. What you suggest is exactly what communist regimes practiced: either concur or leave!
I get the feeling that some people do like wallow in their misery to feel important.
As I said in other posts, their are many people suffering terrible losses. They have to cope with these losses without having anyone to kill for revenge.
To be honest, I find it a bit repulsive to cite sorrow and grief as a higher motive for killing than greed, for example.
And this is not disrespecting the vicitims of a crime -- just stating my opinion about their relatives who bathe themselves in self-important whining about their sufferings.

I was in the service buddy for six years. Now get ...

2006-02-22T03:09:00.000-05:00

I was in the service buddy for six years. Now get back to the debate, eh, I never said RTU would apply in the Navy. Difficult to RTU when you are 100 miles out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean !! The banter stops when you cut the insults. Simple as that old chap. I can banter all day. I had six years of practise. And SAS is more than you imagine. I can take the piss out of you all day long, but I am not here to discuss military matters. You brought it up, not me. Now finish.

Oh and by the way RTU is not used by the Navy for...

2006-02-21T21:56:00.000-05:00

Oh and by the way RTU is not used by the Navy for mentally unstable.
Section 8 and a medical discharge is used. And if you were MU then you definately wouldn't go back to your old unit thats for sure. But then again wouldn't expect an old bloke like you to know. Since you were never in the service. you and your buddies keep watchin those old Sean Connery war movies and leave the fighting men and women of our countries keep you safe at nite,.......ok

awwwwww shucks John you got me, I thought I could...

2006-02-21T21:49:00.000-05:00

awwwwww shucks John you got me, I thought I could never get your goat. Do we need to go back to Psychobabble 101 to learn how not to let the supposed patient get your feathers ruffled!!!

Don't forget the facts which are undisputable....

He will die just a brief delay.
His witness can't be found again, damn now where did she go.
DNA need I say more.............

Hahahaha!! I was out with SAS patrols when you wer...

2006-02-20T16:58:00.000-05:00

Hahahaha!! I was out with SAS patrols when you were still a little egg Hahahaha!! I've seen more action than you've had hot dinners on your little boat !! What a weed you are "OOO it's not a nice feeling" Hahahahahaha!!

"It's not a pleasant feeling" auw diddums gay sail...

2006-02-20T04:43:00.000-05:00

"It's not a pleasant feeling" auw diddums gay sailor boy.

Oh going round the back door of argument Killer Gr...

2006-02-20T04:33:00.000-05:00

Oh going round the back door of argument Killer Grots? Funny ! So brave ! The Navy? Hahahahaha!! and you pretend to be "in the thick of it!!" I love it piss head. You would never have got into the Army. When I had a laugh and read out your bizarre ramblings to an old SAS mate of mine he said you'd have been RTU'd as Mentally Unstable. You are the "moron"! You've never seen incoming fire in your life not judging from your "It's not a pleasant feeling" comment you pathetic little weed. You, like your opinions, are a joke.

Shecat you live in a protective little cacoon don'...

2006-02-19T14:58:00.000-05:00

Shecat you live in a protective little cacoon don't you?

Oz I love your posts and please keep going with your comments, I love them.

John is a moron with a PHD (piled higher and deeper) in psychobabble. he wouldn't know a troubled person if they sat on his face, he is the problem with the military today, less shooting and more coddling. Thank God he has no idea about super specialized units that operate outside his knowledge that continue to keep his sorry ass safe from the bad guys.

Oh John by the way, I was in the US Navy asshole not army as you have once again ass-u-med.

Liz I am a professional psychologist and I tell yo...

2006-02-10T08:38:00.000-05:00

Liz I am a professional psychologist and I tell you "intelligence" and "logic" have little part to play in "choices" in such killers. In fact a number of psychotic people and mentally ill people are very cunning. I have seen this many times in mental hospitals.It has everything to do with the degree of psychological damage either perceptional or mental illness. Paranoia for example is a mixture of the two, and is responsible for many murders. Narcisism can mean there is no defence of altruism. People are not seen as people, they are "objects" in that mindset. Criminals can be "narcistically damaged." And of course, there is the role of projection which I have explained extensively on this website. I do accept your point about gang rolemodels. A soldier kills. Why would he want to be a soldier if not for role modeling? One thing is a victim's emotional response to crime, another is insight and understanding into why it may occur.

Liz.A Cop kills his/her ex fiancé. That is jealous...

2006-02-10T04:40:00.000-05:00

Liz.

A Cop kills his/her ex fiancé. That is jealous rage. (Diminished responsibly)
Gangs kill, over territory, over girls, boys, over drugs, 99.9% of the time Gang members are under the influence of drugs. (Diminished responsibility) We get that here, believe it or not!!! Gangs with guns shooting each other.
A man walks up to a stranger and knifes or shoots him for no reason, he is mad.
Say Ted Bundy for instance, a very capable man, he could hold convocations, mixed well in company, proved to be control freak who was actually insane.

To take a life is no mean feat, it takes a special kind of person Liz, Cops are just as susceptible to mental illness as anyone, in fact I would say a Cop is more likely to suffer from mental illness in their life if they do use their gun at work. I know I could never come to terms with taking someones life, even if it was my job to serve and protect.

English blogger, you cannot assume that people who...

2006-02-09T18:13:00.000-05:00

English blogger, you cannot assume that people who murder are in a diminshed capacity or insane, that's just too simple. There are people who murder who are very intelligent, people who murder who carry on "normal" lives, and, unfortunately, here in the U.S, many younger people, younger than myself, feel that violence is like a status symbol, from teardrop tattoo's around the eye to gangbanging. It is hard to classify all killers into those 2 categories as we are not psychologists here trained in diagnosis the brain. I believe something is wrong with people who kill, but not necessarily that they are in a diminshed capacity to the point where they can't use logic. There was a cop here who killed his ex-fiancee and her new fiancee, also cops. I know for a fact police go through some psychological testing, and I don't think a cop is of diminshed mental capacity, so I'd like to think that people are more accountable than what you are making them.

Liz,If someone commits murder they are either (a) ...

2006-02-09T11:06:00.000-05:00

Liz,
If someone commits murder they are either (a) a person with deminished capabilities (b) Insane
Now in my mind, these people are ill, what they need is help, not to be murdered. They need to go to a secure hospital first then when/if cured, they need to spend the rest of there time behind bars. Life should mean life.

I cannot see how killing someone can ever achive anything. Everbodies life is worth something.

Liz ! I missed a point ! I'm not suggesting your f...

2006-02-09T06:55:00.000-05:00

Liz ! I missed a point ! I'm not suggesting your feelings are not normal. They are very normal and the reason I suggest a psychotherapy group run in a hospital is because a hospital group is more likely to be conducted professionally. A group does the work but it helps if the psychotherapist is a consultant psychotherapist and they are more often found in hospitals than elsewhere. I believe currently there are only about 100 consultant psychotherapists in the whole of the U.K.
Best wishes John.